I grew up in the Chicago suburbs, but my parents and my whole extended family are from an area in eastern Michigan, about 2 hours north of Detroit.
Especially back then, the local economy was heavily dependent on Dow Chemical, who has a massive facility in the area. My grandfather worked there. He was one of the first people to ever handle Saran wrap. He also recalls hilarious stories, like a time when someone pranked the foreman by dumping some stuff in the soap dispenser that turned into a sticky, snotty goo when exposed to water. He also worked in an area that used lots of iodine for a couple years. His whole body was sunflower yellow when he came home from work, but he says he never got a cold!
Some stories are more harrowing. There were air raid sirens to warn people when Dow was venting something into the atmosphere. If you heard the sirens, you went inside ASAP.
And then there was the dioxin plant (aka agent orange). He says men in their 40s who worked in the dioxin plant looked like they were in their 80s. Many hard-working people died young there.
Luckily, he was never in the Dioxin plant on a daily basis - he was a diesel mechanic and a welder. Had he been in the dioxin plant, he probably wouldn't be alive today to share those stories. I fear that, as this generation leaves us, so will the cautionary tales.
> They worked without masks or other protection, the dangers of asbestos either unknown or not thought worth bothering about.
No, they did know. Already in the 19th century it was discovered an high rate of mortality amongst asbestos workers.
In France, 1893, we had the first laws about factory dusts levels.
1906, everyone knew.
Here is a rough translation of a France sénat Report :
> It was in 1906 that the first cases of fibrosis were discovered among spinning mill workers.
> The 1906 Labor Inspection Bulletin published a document entitled "Note on the Hygiene and Safety of Workers in Asbestos Spinning and Weaving Mills," by Mr. Auribault, departmental labor inspector in Caen 11 ( * ).
> Denis Auribault noted: "In 1890, an asbestos spinning and weaving factory was established near Condé-sur-Noireau (Calvados). During the first five years of operation, there was no artificial ventilation to directly evacuate the siliceous dust produced by the various looms; this total failure to comply with hygiene rules 12 ( * ) resulted in numerous deaths among the staff: around fifty workers died during the aforementioned period."
> Thus, as early as 1906, the link between exposure to asbestos fibres and the occurrence of occupational deaths was clearly established.
> My Dad lost his Dad at the age of 34, which is no age at all in the grand scheme of things. By contrast I still have my Dad at the age of 60, which has meant an extra quarter century of guidance, support, advice, love and always being there. How lucky am I?
I lost my father when I was 30. I thought I’d been lucky because I’d had him through my “adult” life. Now I’m 40 and have a 2-year-old son, and over these past ten years I think it’s when I would have most liked to have him — when more questions came up about what he was really like as a person, beyond his role as a father. He died at 72 from lung cancer; he had been smoking since he was 13 and never went to the doctor. I guess I was lucky after all…
One thing I think most Western people don't realize, especially with how terrified we are of asbestos, is that it is still used and being mined today!
Russia still extensively uses Abestos, the name literally comes from the Russian town of Asbest which is known for exporting, you guessed it, asbestos, to countries like China, India, and Brazil. Of course being Russian they also say it's a Western lie that Asbestos causes lung issues. (I shouldn't have to say this but I'm noting this, and not advocating it's true, asbestos is serious business and I wouldn't want to live in a building with it, it's just interesting that BRICS nations still use it).
My father just retired as a lab analyst looking at builder samples for both modern and historical construction, specifically for asbestos.
The day I moved into the college dorms he looked at me and said "Don't move the floor tiles, ceilings tiles or the touch the large ventilation pipe outside my door in the hallway." A lot of the buildings at my university were built with asbestos, so much so that the university had a 30 year contract with the lab he worked at to analyze samples.
And it isn't only historical buildings that have asbestos. A very well known mall that was built in the 2000s had incurred some severe hail damage and while the repairs were ongoing samples were taken and found to be hot. Someone had introduced asbestos contaminated materials into the original build and rather than extensive repairs the mall had to do extensive remediation first, before continuing repairs.
Apparently there is still a large stock of "hot" building material that are sitting in warehouses and every once in a while they make it into the supply chain.
I was very young, but I remember my grandfather was very afraid to retire from the steel mill where he worked most of his life because those who retired tended to get cancer shortly after and die. Sure enough, a little over a year after his retirement, he got a cold that wouldn't go away, and was diagnosed with cancer and died not too long afterwards.
I've wondered for a long time (based entirely on anecdotal observations) whether some forms of cancer and other illnesses arise more quickly from sudden shifts in daily habit. Sometimes it actually does seem to me like the episode in the Simpsons where Mr. Burns thinks he is invincible.
My mother died from pancreatic cancer 5 months ago when she was 55 years old, 9 months after she started noticing pain and doctors started investigating it.
The worst thing is that she never worked in any hazardous environments, never smoked, never drank alcohol, avoided fried cuisine, avoided GMO-food, she was always eating as much as possible from her own garden, did not use any chemicals, she wasn't obese, she didn't have diabetes, she didn't have any problems with pancreas or any other significant health issues. None of her close relatives had cancer. For the last 30 years she lived in a very clean region that doesn't have any industrial factories/manufactures.
The only possible hazard she had - she worked for 15 years near busy road, where there was a lot of diesel/gas engine exhaust, but I doubt this is related to her pancreatic cancer, as I found normally this affects lungs/respiratory paths. Maybe she was exposed to some agricultural chemicals in her childhood, because she was living near agricultural fields in the Soviet Union, but I doubt she was significantly exposed to it.
I even joked with her that she was living probably the most cancer-cautious life, and still got cancer. So the worst thing for her is that nobody could tell what she did incorrectly to get this illness. It felt very unfair for her.
Hey, good thread and some really important points here. Lung fibrosis is tough stuff—there’s no magic bullet yet, honestly. What most docs use these days are drugs like nintedanib and pirfenidone—they help slow things down, but yeah, still no cure. Just recently, a new one, nerandomilast got the FDA thumbs-up and people are saying it looks promising for slowing the disease and maybe it’s easier for folks to tolerate. So, couple new options on the table, which is encouraging (finally!).
A lot of people ask about stem cell therapy. It’s a hot topic for sure. The hype is kinda huge, but, well, it’s still experimental for lung fibrosis. There’s early research suggesting stem cells might help repair or regenerate some lung tissue, but big lung organizations say be careful—most of what’s out there for sale isn’t proven and can actually be risky if you’re not in a real clinical trial. Like, it’s cool science, but def not ready for prime time (yet).
New stuff is happening too—like targeted immunotherapies and more advanced cellular therapies. There’s a lot of studies in the works, some in mice, some actually moving into people. So, fingers crossed for more breakthroughs soon.
The ending is in praise of dads. Wonderful. I lost my dad when I was 8. I still miss him every day. It’s hard to know beforehand how cool it is to watch your kids grow and change. I hope I get to see how cool my kids are in their old age.
Asbestos is genuinely more terrifying then nuclear radiation.
If something is radioactive then a Geiger counter will tell you at a distance, it'll even triangulate it.
Asbestos? It can be everywhere and the only way to know is to collect samples, pay $100 a piece to a lab to do phase contrast microscopy and wait.
Then do it again the next time you find something suspicious.
And once you've cleaned it out..well hope your handling was good coz who knows if you got it all - without collecting a lot of samples and testing again.
My house has a few asbestos pieces, and in digging up the yard I've pulled a huge amount of asbestos fiber cement from cheap renovations by previous owners - the stuff was about 10 cm below the surface.
I remember when I was living in Melbourne I read a story about the Wunderlich factory which operated in the suburb of sunshine. Supposedly they left their wast just sitting in the yard (which was very centrally located so people would commonly cut through it). The local kids loved playing in the dusty stuff and on windy days it was apparently like a snowstorm. The factory operated up until the 80s, it is hard to believe.
It must be mentioned that this is about blue asbestos, or crocidolite, which is the most dangerous form of asbestos, but was relatively rarely used and the first to be banned. White asbestos (chrysotile) has a much lower risk[1], far more widespread use, and there are still active chrysotile mines in Russia and China.
I know its not fashionable, but things like asbestos is the point of regulation.
If you ignore the health effects, asbestos is a fucking brilliant material, strong(if used with a binder) exceptionally fireproof, UV stable and fairly inert.
Why _wouldn't_ you use it? To use modern parlance; only melts wouldn't use it, thats who (this message brought to you by your friendly corporate sponsor...)
The problem is that it still kills now[1]. Because its a time bomb, with a dwell time of well over 10-20 years, its very lard to pin point the cause.
The only way that its _stopped_ being put into building materials is through regulation. The problem now for us, especailly in the UK is the power of regulation is being ablated through incompetence, funding cuts and a concerted effort by those who stand to benefit from a weakened regulatory system.
Most regulation is formed from the blood of victims. We may not _like_ what the regulation is, and lord knows it needs improving. But to not have it, or worst, have it and not be enforced, is a terrible state of affairs.
I overheard a TFL worker talking about the Bakerloo line (here in London) apparently having vast sections of the tunnels covered in asbestos and it would be too expensive and too dangerous to ever remove so every few years they spray the inside of the line with basically glue to stop it from breaking up. I try to avoid taking the Bakerloo line these days...
> The company mined asbestos-bearing rock at several sites in South Africa
"In South Africa" is not very specific.
it seems to have been firstly in this remote in the remote Northern Cape where "The mine eventually became the largest crocidolite mine in the world" : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koegas_mine
Attempts to reopen the mine and sell asbestos to the developing world under a new brand caught the attention of the Daily Show leading to some train wreck coverage that ultimately led to them changing the name of the town.
When I was 18, I demolished an asbestos cement wall - too bad the asbestos aspect was unclear until the work was already finished.
I was only wearing a simple mask and was otherwise unprotected.
Since this event, I have developed an excruciating health anxiety/health OCD disorder that focuses around this event. Realistically I do know that while my risk is non zero, it is exceedingly low. But this non zero chance is what is so evil about OCD and this topic. It is debilitating.
At this point, I know way more about asbestos and related diseases than anyone outside the medical and construction industry should know.
Even if OT, I would take the chance to remember the great sicilian hacker Asbesto, that I never had the honour to know personally, for what represented for the hacker culture in Italy. And for his aweson woodcraft mastery. May R.I.P.
My mom's father died in his early 30's while working as an engineer for Mack Trucks in Hagerstown, Maryland in the '50s and '60s and my mom, to this day, attributes his rapid health decline to mesothelioma/industrial asbestos exposure.
When I was younger, my dad had me help him repair the roof of the shed by getting on top of it, putting these sorts of flexible sheets over the old corrugated ones (that are made of asbestos cement) and driving nails through the top one all the way until it'd hit the wood frame underneath.
Now, asbestosis is more common in long term exposure so it might be fine, but not bothering to tell me to wear a respirator and the ignorance after I brought it up years later makes me disgusted. So now I have to wonder whether decades later I'll have complications without clear ways to address them.
Asbestosis
(diamondgeezer.blogspot.com)283 points by zeristor 26 October 2025 | 218 comments
Comments
Especially back then, the local economy was heavily dependent on Dow Chemical, who has a massive facility in the area. My grandfather worked there. He was one of the first people to ever handle Saran wrap. He also recalls hilarious stories, like a time when someone pranked the foreman by dumping some stuff in the soap dispenser that turned into a sticky, snotty goo when exposed to water. He also worked in an area that used lots of iodine for a couple years. His whole body was sunflower yellow when he came home from work, but he says he never got a cold!
Some stories are more harrowing. There were air raid sirens to warn people when Dow was venting something into the atmosphere. If you heard the sirens, you went inside ASAP.
And then there was the dioxin plant (aka agent orange). He says men in their 40s who worked in the dioxin plant looked like they were in their 80s. Many hard-working people died young there.
Luckily, he was never in the Dioxin plant on a daily basis - he was a diesel mechanic and a welder. Had he been in the dioxin plant, he probably wouldn't be alive today to share those stories. I fear that, as this generation leaves us, so will the cautionary tales.
https://www.michiganlcv.org/case/no-compensation-victims-tox...
https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/midwest/2023/01/30/705...
No, they did know. Already in the 19th century it was discovered an high rate of mortality amongst asbestos workers.
In France, 1893, we had the first laws about factory dusts levels.
1906, everyone knew.
Here is a rough translation of a France sénat Report :
> It was in 1906 that the first cases of fibrosis were discovered among spinning mill workers.
> The 1906 Labor Inspection Bulletin published a document entitled "Note on the Hygiene and Safety of Workers in Asbestos Spinning and Weaving Mills," by Mr. Auribault, departmental labor inspector in Caen 11 ( * ).
> Denis Auribault noted: "In 1890, an asbestos spinning and weaving factory was established near Condé-sur-Noireau (Calvados). During the first five years of operation, there was no artificial ventilation to directly evacuate the siliceous dust produced by the various looms; this total failure to comply with hygiene rules 12 ( * ) resulted in numerous deaths among the staff: around fifty workers died during the aforementioned period."
> Thus, as early as 1906, the link between exposure to asbestos fibres and the occurrence of occupational deaths was clearly established.
https://www.senat.fr/rap/r05-037-1/r05-037-1_mono.html#toc28
I lost my father when I was 30. I thought I’d been lucky because I’d had him through my “adult” life. Now I’m 40 and have a 2-year-old son, and over these past ten years I think it’s when I would have most liked to have him — when more questions came up about what he was really like as a person, beyond his role as a father. He died at 72 from lung cancer; he had been smoking since he was 13 and never went to the doctor. I guess I was lucky after all…
Russia still extensively uses Abestos, the name literally comes from the Russian town of Asbest which is known for exporting, you guessed it, asbestos, to countries like China, India, and Brazil. Of course being Russian they also say it's a Western lie that Asbestos causes lung issues. (I shouldn't have to say this but I'm noting this, and not advocating it's true, asbestos is serious business and I wouldn't want to live in a building with it, it's just interesting that BRICS nations still use it).
The day I moved into the college dorms he looked at me and said "Don't move the floor tiles, ceilings tiles or the touch the large ventilation pipe outside my door in the hallway." A lot of the buildings at my university were built with asbestos, so much so that the university had a 30 year contract with the lab he worked at to analyze samples.
And it isn't only historical buildings that have asbestos. A very well known mall that was built in the 2000s had incurred some severe hail damage and while the repairs were ongoing samples were taken and found to be hot. Someone had introduced asbestos contaminated materials into the original build and rather than extensive repairs the mall had to do extensive remediation first, before continuing repairs.
Apparently there is still a large stock of "hot" building material that are sitting in warehouses and every once in a while they make it into the supply chain.
I've wondered for a long time (based entirely on anecdotal observations) whether some forms of cancer and other illnesses arise more quickly from sudden shifts in daily habit. Sometimes it actually does seem to me like the episode in the Simpsons where Mr. Burns thinks he is invincible.
https://imgur.com/V1QcX7I
The only possible hazard she had - she worked for 15 years near busy road, where there was a lot of diesel/gas engine exhaust, but I doubt this is related to her pancreatic cancer, as I found normally this affects lungs/respiratory paths. Maybe she was exposed to some agricultural chemicals in her childhood, because she was living near agricultural fields in the Soviet Union, but I doubt she was significantly exposed to it.
I even joked with her that she was living probably the most cancer-cautious life, and still got cancer. So the worst thing for her is that nobody could tell what she did incorrectly to get this illness. It felt very unfair for her.
A lot of people ask about stem cell therapy. It’s a hot topic for sure. The hype is kinda huge, but, well, it’s still experimental for lung fibrosis. There’s early research suggesting stem cells might help repair or regenerate some lung tissue, but big lung organizations say be careful—most of what’s out there for sale isn’t proven and can actually be risky if you’re not in a real clinical trial. Like, it’s cool science, but def not ready for prime time (yet).
New stuff is happening too—like targeted immunotherapies and more advanced cellular therapies. There’s a lot of studies in the works, some in mice, some actually moving into people. So, fingers crossed for more breakthroughs soon.
https://www.fda.gov/drugs/news-events-human-drugs/fda-approv... https://stemcellthailand.org/therapies/idiopathic-pulmonary-... https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-025-59093-7
Here’s to workers rights and living longer.
If something is radioactive then a Geiger counter will tell you at a distance, it'll even triangulate it.
Asbestos? It can be everywhere and the only way to know is to collect samples, pay $100 a piece to a lab to do phase contrast microscopy and wait.
Then do it again the next time you find something suspicious.
And once you've cleaned it out..well hope your handling was good coz who knows if you got it all - without collecting a lot of samples and testing again.
My house has a few asbestos pieces, and in digging up the yard I've pulled a huge amount of asbestos fiber cement from cheap renovations by previous owners - the stuff was about 10 cm below the surface.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DIYUK/comments/133jq4r/the_is_this_...
[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3581056/
If you ignore the health effects, asbestos is a fucking brilliant material, strong(if used with a binder) exceptionally fireproof, UV stable and fairly inert.
Why _wouldn't_ you use it? To use modern parlance; only melts wouldn't use it, thats who (this message brought to you by your friendly corporate sponsor...)
The problem is that it still kills now[1]. Because its a time bomb, with a dwell time of well over 10-20 years, its very lard to pin point the cause.
The only way that its _stopped_ being put into building materials is through regulation. The problem now for us, especailly in the UK is the power of regulation is being ablated through incompetence, funding cuts and a concerted effort by those who stand to benefit from a weakened regulatory system.
Most regulation is formed from the blood of victims. We may not _like_ what the regulation is, and lord knows it needs improving. But to not have it, or worst, have it and not be enforced, is a terrible state of affairs.
[1]https://neu.org.uk/latest/library/what-real-risk-asbestos-sc...
"In South Africa" is not very specific.
it seems to have been firstly in this remote in the remote Northern Cape where "The mine eventually became the largest crocidolite mine in the world" : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koegas_mine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos_Mountains
It predictably wasn't consequence-free at that end either, see the later parts of article. And many other sources, e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2001/sep/15/weekend...
Attempts to reopen the mine and sell asbestos to the developing world under a new brand caught the attention of the Daily Show leading to some train wreck coverage that ultimately led to them changing the name of the town.
I was only wearing a simple mask and was otherwise unprotected.
Since this event, I have developed an excruciating health anxiety/health OCD disorder that focuses around this event. Realistically I do know that while my risk is non zero, it is exceedingly low. But this non zero chance is what is so evil about OCD and this topic. It is debilitating.
At this point, I know way more about asbestos and related diseases than anyone outside the medical and construction industry should know.
I’ve also just posted his great article on British Summer Time, I would have that would have been more popular;
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45710093
Now, asbestosis is more common in long term exposure so it might be fine, but not bothering to tell me to wear a respirator and the ignorance after I brought it up years later makes me disgusted. So now I have to wonder whether decades later I'll have complications without clear ways to address them.
They would be fabulous, many of them for repurpossing, but because asbestos it is financially impossible to do anything with them.
So they rot. Some burn, which I imagine releases the asbestos into the atmosphere
It is such a waste